Designing My New Walk-In Humidor! | Vigilant Consultation | Kirby Allison
Hi I'm Kirby Allison and I've taken the Plunge I've decided to build a walk-in Humidor yep that's right my cigar Collection no longer fits in my end Table humidor anymore and I find the Environment of small humidors difficult To maintain for long-term aging so after A bit of humidor envy and inspiration From my most recent trip to London I've Reached out to the leading designer of Cigar humidor's Vigilant ink based in New Hampshire to help me design the Ultimate walk-in humidor and better yet They also specialize in the design of Wine cellars so why just build a walk-in Humidor when you can build a walk-in Humidor and Wine Cellar so in today's Video I'm joined by vigilance president Charlie Griffiths to discuss how to Build the ultimate walk-in humidor and Wine cellar [Music] Hey Charlie thank you so much for Joining me I couldn't be any more Excited about this project that we're Working on I have to say this has been Quite a journey on my and and I couldn't Be more excited uh to be kind of beating With you talking about the process of Designing a proper walk-in humidor and I Have to say there's not very many people Out there that do it I mean you could Probably count on less than one hand of The number of people that have expertise
In designing walk-in humidors in the World and here you are based here in the United States so it's pretty exciting For me yeah it's it's been fun working With you and um you know we do it every Day uh on both cigar and wine not that Often on wine and cigar at the same time In the same room but um certainly Obviously something that we enjoy doing And this has been uh it's been fun I Spent a lot of time on the website and You guys have some absolutely incredible Projects and what's interesting about Vigilant is that uh you know as far as Cigar humidors are concerned that's the Only company I know of in the United States really specializing in building Large walk-in humidors but you also have An extensive amount of expertise and Just work in wine cellars as well Yeah so we you know we got started in Humidors back in 95 1995 so 27 years ago And uh within five to six years we Realized that uh we had clients asking Us about wine Um what do they have in common well Um obviously they're one of life's great Consumables wine and cigars and people Care a lot about you know what they're Buying and what their smoking and or Drinking and they need to take care of It and at the same time they want they Want it to be in a beautiful area and Presentation and at the same time they
Want to be able to sleep at night and Travel and go away when they come back Their wine their cigars or you know Properly taken care of properly stored Um and um there for them to enjoy yeah That's I mean you can kind of hit that Nail on the head right I mean in my own Particular Journey right I mean I've got This beautiful end table humidor that I Bought probably eight years ago the First one I had was just humidity Controlled and not temperature Controlled but then you know here we are In Texas we had our uh air conditioning Units break I think twice during the Summer and next thing you know you know My humidor is up above 80 degrees Fahrenheit which is the point Beyond Which you really have to worry about Tobacco beetles and so I had to take all My cigars empty my humidor find someone Else to allow me to store the cigars in Their humidor and it was this massive Hassle and then I think I ended up Having some cigars end up being Destroyed from tobacco beetles and so You know in addition to just having a Beautiful place to store your cigars Whenever you're aging cigars for years The environment really has a large Impact on the quality of the Aging but Also ensures that you don't ruined your Cigars during that process Yeah I mean you know you know cigars are
You know and wine have that in common I Mean they they as they age they they Change a little bit in flavor if there's A cigar that is a lot it's mouthy and It's really strong and maybe a little Raw you know with time it's probably Most likely going to get better it's Going to smoke smoother Um the flavors uh mellow with age some Of it has to do with the ammonia content In the the leaves as they are taken out Of uh in their harvested and the further You get away from that as long as it's a Quality cigar to begin with the better The cigar generally is going to get and Very very similar circumstances with Wine as well and I have customers that Know way more about cigars than I do and I've got customers that know a lot more About wine that I do and that's what I Like because I learn uh from people that Are incredibly passionate Consumers and collectors and um that's What that's one of the things that makes This business so fun yeah Yeah I would imagine that in your line Of work like what you said I mean you're Really dealing with passionate Connoisseurs I mean wine collectors Cigar collectors and in order for them To reach the point at which they're Reaching out to someone like Vigilant to Design a wine cellar or to design a Walk-in humidor they've really you know
Become quite serious in their pursuit of That passion Yeah they absolutely have and generally They have some stories some trials and Some tribulations uh you mentioned a few With you with um you know air Conditioning Um situations I know in Texas you guys Had a cold winter issue I think a year And a half ago Um you know most cigar humidors the ones That we sell the control temperature Heat and cool so uh if you did have a Generator and you had power but maybe Didn't have heat at least um your well You might not have been warm your cigars Would have been warm Yeah well that's I mean that's one of The things I think has been most Surprising to me uh just as I've begun Collecting and aging cigars is just how Difficult it is to actually maintain an Appropriate environment for those cigars I mean I'd be interested to hear what You have to say but in many ways I would Imagine it's more difficult for cigars Than it is with wine because wine I mean You need the proper temperature that's Pretty easy to hit you need a little bit Of humidity to prevent the corks from Drying out but that's kind of it whereas With cigars you've got to really be at a Precise temperature and you've got to be At a precise humidity and those two
Numbers seem to always be chasing Themselves in a circle They do and um when you're dealing with A a customer who doesn't understand that And why should they if they you know if They haven't made it part of their Business but if the temperature is Changing the humidity is changing and if The humidity is changing that's not good For your cigar so Um as as uh most people know that the Relationship to 70 70 Isn't just sort of a general convenience Suggestion by somebody who thought that Would be easy for people to remember as When at 70 degrees Fahrenheit and 70 Humidity that uh that though the Relationship between those twos is the Perfect humidity the actual humidity Content of the air for your cigars so Um you know somebody might say well I It's it's 70 humidity and it's only it's No big deal it's it's 77 degrees I don't Have to worry about tobacco beetles They Don't Really manifest themselves until Closer to 80 or getting close there's Going to be a lot there's going to be Way too much humidity in that 78 degree Air and your cigars are going to start To you know start to swell and Oftentimes before you know it because it Hasn't demonstrated plume which is the The onset the early onset indication of Of mold
Your cigars are already suffering a Little bit right because if it's Happening repeatedly without your Knowledge over days weeks months maybe Years you know the what's happening is The tobacco the wrapper the binder and The filler are gradually expanding and Then potentially Contracting again if the condition Abates and that's just not good that's That's not good for the the cigar the The elasticity of that tobacco has a Limit right because it's not on it's not Growing in the plant anymore it's been Harvested and it's um you know it's been Uh put up and treated before the the Cigar has been rolled and you need to Avoid that at all costs Yeah absolutely and that's the challenge With you know temperature and relative Humidity is that you know as your Temperature fluctuates you know the uh The swing and humidity can be uh even More dramatic and that's been my Frustration with smaller environments And correct me or kind of let me know Your opinion on this but you know I Found that the smaller the environment In many ways the more difficult it is to Produce a consistent uh apps for the Smaller the humidor uh the more Difficult it is to produce a consistent Environment and so ultimately I think That's what pushed me over the edge with
The idea of doing a larger walk-in Humidor is the idea is that the larger It is the larger volume of air you know Any type of fluctuations and temperature Or humidity are going to be buffered by The fact that you know it's a large Volume No absolutely I mean that's how that's Why I started Vigilant in 1995 I had a Really beautiful heirloom uh burl wood Humidor that was pretty good size I mean For desktops at the time it was 150 Cigars a big desktop by most standards And it had a I had a lid mounted Um you know unit that you put uh could You put it water into and I noticed that It was supposed to desiccate over time And I paid a lot of attention to it and I noticed that the cigars that were Closest to it were getting a little a Little damp and the cigars down at the Bottom of the sides and I couldn't wrote You know you don't want to be touching Your cigars all the time you're going to Tear a wrapper you know you want them All to be sort of snug as a bug in a rug In there and just leave them alone and I Couldn't figure it out and I and I'm Kind of an engineer at heart even though I'm not trained as one and I said There's got to be a better way and You're absolutely right I had I went Bigger first because I knew that trying To control moisture and airflow in a
Very tight small space was going to be Very difficult so our first product was An end table and we were able to come up With because we didn't find an Alternative a nice evaporative Humidification system that we created Using most for the most part Commercially available Parts sensors and And control panels and fans and such and Sort of struck on a nice balance of how We gradually and accurately control Humidity and it was a huge success I Mean nobody had ever really done Anything like that so you know we had we Had way more pent-up demand than what we Had even imagined ourselves and that was What we were hearing from people is I Just I'm tired of buying 25 cigars and Throwing away six and or you know Lighting up a cigar and not having any Draw because it's got too much humidity Or you know having friends over and Being embarrassed that my cigars aren't Aren't really you know up to Snuff so That's that's really the Genesis of what Got us all started and you know to be Able to try to solve a technical problem And do it for people that are passionate About something like cigars and in wine It makes it makes it really fun Yeah so what what are the uh you know in Your expert opinion you know the Hallmarks of a properly built humidor I Mean what are those
Um you know those kind of Characteristics that really have to be Controlled for Sure so I mean the obvious stuff is is Always there right so Um Spanish Cedar preferably or Maha or a Mahogany interior unfinished Um Spanish Cedar white Spanish Cedar Well that's what the Cubans had plenty Of uh growing uh on the island of Cuba And it just so happens that it's a great Neutral soft Non-aromatic it's not like it's not like Western Red Cedar uh wood that absorbs And takes off more and sends off Moisture desiccates at a very gradual Rate and it doesn't crack and it doesn't Suffer itself as a as a result of being In a in an environment that's 70 you Know 70 percent humidity so that's one Mahogany for the most part like a Genuine mahogany works just as well some People think Spanish Cedar is better That's fine we do both Um and we can we can accommodate that we Do a lot of spanner Cedar for raw you Know cigars that are out of boxes there Are in bends whatever so that's that's One obviously really well sealed and Stable you can't just use any any wood For this humidor because you can imagine That it's always 70 humidity on the Inside but in Texas uh in the winter I Would imagine it gets pretty dry you got
Heat on in your house Um it may even get dry in the summer in Some houses depending on what's going on With the air conditioning Upper Midwest New England parts of California people Like to have their windows open when It's nice out so then it might get a Little humid so you can't have the Humidor the wood grow you know trying to Expand on one side and being very stable On the other it's going to crack it Might warp you got issues so that's Basic stuff and also in addition to that You know having a thoughtful layout of How the cigars are stored whether it's a Tray whether it's a bin whether it's Some shelves we'll see I think you're Designing a bit for your Box Cigars Which I'm always of the mind that you Know when you get boxes of cigars you Leave the cigars in there if you can Hand and then where you want to take out Cigars as you get in deeper into a box And you want more space you know take Them out and use your loose cigar Storage so those are the basic things in Terms of the construction and the Organization and then you get into Obviously the things we've been alluding To a little bit here in our conversation Which is the humidification system and You know we looked at the beginning and Again over years to keep ourselves Honest at multiple different ways to
Introduce humidity into a very confined Environment as you mentioned and it just So happens that the simplest way is is Often the case is the best way and That's and that's evaporative humidity Using very simple basic physics of Saying well we've got water how do we Introduce that water controllably gently And reg in a regulated way into a small Environment or a larger one in your case With a walk-in and that's just Evaporating uh you know in our case Distilled water you can talk about why In a minute if you'd like and have um Have it you know we use fans to push Um push air of cross Um something within the water a medium Of some nature uh to allow the air to Flow and actually the medium Um as a result also cleans the air over Time that's why we suggested people Change their wicking filter so addition To that also what you're using for for Um for controls and electronics and back In 95 most of our stuff we were proud That it was quote unquote solid state I Feel like I'm talking about a 1957 RCA Television when I say that now but what Really was critical about that it was Analog control and not quite as easy to To use to make it work to our tolerances And then we got into digital uh digital Controls probably in the mid early 2000s When we had the components available the
Technology available to do that so we're Able to operate at a fairly tight Tolerance a two percent hysteresis this Range so if you set it at 70 for Instance it's gonna it's gonna bounce Between 69 and 71 you have to give it a Little bandwidth to be able to operate Because if the fan only had a a half a Degree uh it would come on and off Constantly and it wouldn't really be Able to tell what's going on so Um it does rise and fall a little bit While it's turned on but the key part is That it that its tolerances are tight And that it's accurate and that you're Not getting these major swings so I Think that pretty much covers you Yeah and so but the construction of the Humidor itself is actually uh you know Really important to allowing you to hit Those objectives because whenever I was First looking into this I said well you Know I'll just build my own humidor ride You know I could probably do it myself I'll go you know to Lowe's or to Home Depot I'll just buy you know one of Those you know floor little air Conditioning units you know to cool the Space and then I can buy you know some Type of humidifier to run that but you Know the more research I was doing and Then I came across vigilance website you Know you very quickly realize that you Know traditional air conditioning units
Dehumidify the air and that process of Conditioning the air and our would be You know would be fighting with the Humidification and so you would never Hit your humidification running the AC Or you'd end up with these wide swings Where the air conditioning would kick on It would drop the humidity and then your Humidifier would have to kick on and Spike it back up and you'd constantly be Fighting uh so you know again you know One of the things I'm constantly struck By is is what you know maybe on paper Might seem quite easy to achieve Whenever technically you get into how You have to uh uh you know build Something in order to create that Environment is much more difficult than What would initially meet the eye yeah That's that's that's very true I mean It's um air conditioners are built to Make people comfortable not cigars and Not wine right so the big difference There with especially with you Um having a hybrid approach here with Cigars and wine is that what we do is For smaller cabinets we use Thermoelectric cooling units which are Not compressor based they use low Voltage Um low voltage directional current to Cool down a heat sink and we move a fan Over that so that process in and of Itself does not dehumidify at all okay
It just it creates there's very little Condensate uh pulled or created when you Do that in a room you can't use these They're not large scale I mean they were Actually invented by NASA in the 60s and That's what we're in spacesuits for the Astronauts that landed on the moon so it Was high tech then and now they're a Commodity but they're really cool so They they're really uh well suited to Control temperature and smaller uh you Know maybe a cabin up to armoire size And then after that now you've got to go Back and you've got to look at something With a compressor in it like an air Conditioner has however Um what a system for Um cigars and wine will do is it does Not drop the airflow into a very very Low temperature state of 37 to 38 Degrees because that will immediately Create condensation which has to be Evacuated and that's dehumidifying so What these systems do is they gently Cool so they demand larger fan coils and Larger fans because they're not as cold So they have still have to move the air And you know again we're not looking for Extreme temperature drops right like We're looking for cigars to be in the High 60s to low 70s and wine depending Uh we'll talk about your case in a Minute where you're doing a hybrid Approach somewhere between 45 for white
Wines which most people are not going to Do unless it's a separate white wine Cabinet and for red wines 55 to 65 Depending on whether they're long-term Storage or they want serving temps so That's sort of the the Um the basic differences and elements of Why you need to buy something that's Specifically designed for the purpose We're talking about Yeah and this is where you know the Design of the humidor and the design of A wine cellar at scale intersect and That a lot of the um you know design Techniques for a walk in humidor are Quite similar to that of a wine cellar Like for instance you know the type of Air conditioning unit that you would use The wine Guardian one that you Recommended is the same unit that you Would use in a walk-in seller the Humidification is going to be different Because you know our primary focus here Is cigars and then also you know the way That you insulate and Vapor seal it is The same as well is that right Yeah so that's really critically Important and um we have a lot of uh you Know white paper type stuff on our Website information for people because You know obviously we're here in New Hampshire and we're not building doing The construction project for you so we Want to make sure you have all the
Information at your fingertips to make Sure that what you're doing Um is going to work so if you can do Um if you didn't build the room properly As you mentioned with the proper Insulation and the proper Vapor Barrier You could have some serious consequences In terms of what would happen without Possibly even your knowledge in your Home so we all know what happens to a Cold soda can or a cold beer can when You take it out of the fridge and you Bring it out to your patio or poolside Immediately the outside of that can Starts condensing you get water vapor Turning to liquid right on the surface Of the aluminum can well that could Actually happen inside your walls of Your home Um in exactly the same way but doing it In a captive area in a stud wall and you May not know it for a long time and we All know how how um you know what tough It is if you start getting mold problems And what can happen there so essentially Putting a vapor barrier Um on the warm side of the wall or Inside the wall and then the insulation And then your cold space that prevents That Vapor Barrier that coke can concept From happening inside your wall it's Called reaching the dew point and you Cannot have a situation where you're Reaching the dew point in your in your
House or in your building and again most The time you're not going to be able to Tell until you start to see mold forming Somewhere so that being sticking to that It's not that complicated it's not that Expensive but it's very important Yeah and how is that done I mean what is The best way to insulate and provide That Vapor Barrier so the easiest Simplest way to do it is to have your Stud Bay walls open on the on the inside On the side where you're during Construction or renovation where your Wine room Cigar Room is going to be and Use get a contractor to come in and do You do closed cell foam insulation they Come in with a gun and they blow it in And then they they cut out the um the Extra material and then you're done the Closed cell foam acts as a very good Barrier and an insulator and it also has A very high R value and that would be Especially desirable on a 2×4 wall Versus a two by six wall where you could Fit more insulation so that's a number One it's a little bit more expensive Um and maybe harder you know to find Someone to do it if you're a diyer or Your contractor wants to do something Different you need to put up like six Mil Poly on the warm side so let's say You know behind and the drywall on the Other rooms and then you can use you Know traditional pink or whatever craft
Face bad insulation fill that all up so You make sure that you're not letting Cold air reach the warm air and then the Plastic prevents vapor from getting to The warm side and turning to liquid so If you do that you're either one of Those ways it works perfectly Fascinating well let's kind of pull up My plans right here I've worked with Your team you know over the last few Months to kind of go through this design Process and so I've got 15 by or 20 by 15 foot space kind of in our warehouse That we plan on basically building the Shelf for this and the idea was you know To have you know the primary purpose of This of course is the cigar storage Right but it's a room that's larger I Would think than the number of cigars I Could possibly buy but you know don't Hold me to that and so I thought that You know maybe incorporating a little Bit of wine storage space into this as Well Um it would allow this space to be a Little bit more versatile so Um kind of walk me through kind of what You think of the plans right we've got You know and then we're going to film in There also which is why we can have this You know little anti-chamber uh in the Front of the room but you know we would Set it up we would spray foam it to Insulate you know to create that Vapor
Barrier right and then you know Vigilant You know worked the design and then Would build uh the shelving that then Would be delivered and we would install Into the room right Yeah so you know you you had some pretty Specific requirements in terms of like You said the ante ROM having some space Inside where your entry door is um it's Not it's not apparent to me when I look At this which way you're going to have Your door swinged you know but it Doesn't really matter you've got the Room for it um just functionally uh or Structurally if you could have the door Swing in that's a little bit better Because then when a cooling system is Running it tends to create a little bit Of positive pressure in the room so that Would be pushing the door against your Weather stripping and making sure that It's a nice seal so that door Um needs to be an exterior grade door With weather stripping and a threshold With a weather stripping on that right Because we can't have cold air escaping It's inefficient and you might have some Of the condensation issues that we Discussed with the wall cavities so Um you know preferably swings in but if It needs to swing out not a huge deal we Just you know if we're making the door We we account for that so Um so yeah so you've got you've got this
Nice re-elevation so as you walk in You're looking at elevation B which is Sort of a cigar and you've got some wine Bottles and wine glasses because that's A nice area where you know you've got Some horizontal storage which you know Other than cigar Cutters and maybe an Ashtray you don't have you don't have a Lot of other accessory needs in that Room well my thinking right here is that This was where like a presentation Humidor would go right okay sure that's Great you know maybe you know some Something like what you've got on your Desk right there maybe a little bit Larger maybe an LA blue humidor but Something you know is either you know Decorative or is something that is um You know meant to you know you know kind Of prepare the cigars to be smoked so You know some people enjoy smoking their Scars at a different humidity or RH than You know what they store them at so to Cap that space to be able to do that Sure um Uh yeah and then the other thing is the Um you know the lockers right that's I Mean you do a lot of work for Um uh for cigar clubs or cigar shops Yeah and so you guys have a lot of Locker experiences so that was something I wanted to integrate you know either For myself or a certain kind of put away Reserved cigars or being able to allow
Good friends who are also cigar Collectors that kind of a secure area Where they could store their their Cigars as well yeah so I'm not sure it Doesn't say on here but you could if you Wanted to get you know pretty fancy About it you could uh you could key all Those doors uh separately Um and you could have a master key Because you you are the master because This is your room so you could have a Master key and you you wouldn't need to Need to worry about it but if you wanted To be kind of fun about it if you had a Friend who was who had their own little Space there you could give them their Own key and then they couldn't get into Anybody else's Locker which would be Yeah kind of cool well they've got They've got to go through me you know There's going to be a cigar tax on Anything that's stored in this of course Of course has to be And then shelves because I think that You know primarily you know like you Have prescribed to the Um you know the theory or or the Philosophy that you know one should Really keep their cigars in the Box Until the box is all but empty and then Maybe take a few out uh and store on a Loose tray but that's really kind of how I see myself storing my cigars is Primarily in the box and I think that
You know there's very few things I mean The only thing more beautiful than a box Of cigars is a cabinet no that's right I Mean that the cigar boxes are just great I mean they're they're essentially Artwork in my opinion and they look cool And it's you know honestly the best Organizational method is you know the The visual method right you're gonna you Know you know what a Fuente you know What a padron you know you know what you Know whatever your cigar of choice is You you know you know what it looks like And then you can you can organize these However you'd like right you can Organize them by size you could organize Them by region you could organize them Uh by your favorites whatever it is you Know whatever it is so that's kind of a Nice a nice thing and I do as I said I Do agree keep them in the box until the Box is maybe almost empty you might need The space and then you have a place you Know where you know you've got you've Got a few left and you you share them in A bin or you put them in that that Desktop that you have Um and you go from there so because That's a big problem that people have Honestly with wine and cigars is that When you get when you get a room that's Got this much in it you sometimes have a Hard time finding you know what you what You want
Um sometimes it's because you had a Party and you smoked and drank what you Don't remember you smoked and drank and Then you said I know it's here somewhere It's not it's it's been consumed so That's I I really like what you came up With there and I think it is going to Look great Yeah it sounds like you've got a lot of Experience with this with the different Organizational methods having probably Reorganized your cigars a few times over I have done that and I've been in a lot Of people's wine and cigar rooms and They've told me that pretty much every Single time so it's a common theme yeah And then we've got the wine side which Is getting into you know again you know Part of what you guys do a lot of this Is a relatively small You know by your standards I would Imagine a wine storage area Um But you know talk to me a little bit About this sure I mean this this is um It's a nice setup uh you've got uh Obviously your horizontal area you got To have that with your your countertop So you can you know pull out wine and Um to open it or when you're organizing What have you so that's that's always Really important and you've got some Drawers there you know for openers and Other things like that possibly a
Decanter Um you know we use we use a little Decanter devices instead of just a Decanter things like that you can put in There Um and then you know one of the spirits Here you look at is on the sides where We have your Cubbies top and bottom and Your display row Um you you've got it very you know Easily organized because of you've got One two three four five six displays and Then you've got the you've got the Cubbies up above and below that can Match up right so if you buy a case of Wine you put one in the display and you Put bottles of cover below and that Helps you kind of keep track because as You have here you know you've got cork Forward which is beaut which is great The cork forward's hard it's hard to Tell what what that wine is right Because a lot of companies share the Same foil color or they don't use a foil At all they're using they're using Something on top of the cork so it's Very well organized and I just like Cubbies because they work really well The bottle you know unlike some other Racks you're not going to tear a label Um and you know there's a lot of wood Showing which is really nice and then You've got your your bins uh Down Below In the center and what's great about
Bends is two things one you can fit most Of the bins you've got there you can fit A case in even the ones that are the Diamonds the smaller diamonds Um and then you if you have individual Ones that are remnants like we talked About with cigars you got one or two Left you might designate a couple Cubbies there where you say this is Where when I get down to one or two Bottles I'm gonna stick them down here With some of their friends Um and then I'm gonna you know know Where they are and they don't need to be Vertically stacked with my display row Um groupings like that so it's a it's a Nice design you've got some place for Glasses Um and it's all matching the woods all The same for your cigars and your uh and Your wine which is gonna look really Great and you got some lighting in there Too which is nice so we use LED lighting Um it's not it's a warm 2700 KW which is Standard if you know that's a Edison Light Bulb color and again it's very low UV emitting because it's an LED and not An incandescent bulb and it doesn't Generate much heat at all which is Really a huge huge benefit yeah I'm sure That LEDs really kind of changed the Thermodynamic design of a lot of your Humidors really make it much lower load Much better so much better yes
Yeah and so I mean again you know Visually beautiful I mean whenever you Look to a humidor or wine cellar design I mean do you prefer the individual Cubbies or they're a bunch of different I mean the people I mean is how you Store your wine totally up to personal Preference or do you guys See any type of I don't know any type of You know Trends yeah sure I mean it's It's a it's a it's a combination of both I mean Um people that buy a lot of rare or Um you know sought after wine they're They're gonna be a little bit like you Are Kirby with cigars they're going to Keep Um those wines don't come in cardboard Boxes they come in wooden boxes or Wooden crates and they're going to keep Them in there Um for a long time a they may choose Which some people do not to keep that Case of wine or they buy two and for one Reason or another they get into one and They're like you know I don't want this wine in the long term And there's a very active and robust Secondary market for for wines a Community of people uh that are out There that you can either reach out to And say does anybody want this and it Doesn't mean that it's not a good wine It means it's not for you or you have
Other wine you want to buy so we we Would normally have a lot or not Normally but oftentimes have a lot of Wood case storage which are more like The shells that you have your cigars on And those boxes are cool too you know They're burned they have a burnt in you Know logo with the name of the winery on It and again a very good organizational Tool you got 12 bottles in there you Know they're in there you're not Drinking this you know Bordeaux you're Not even thinking about drinking this Bordeaux for 6 8 10 12 15 years Um so there you go leave it where it is A lot of times people aren't buying wine By the case they can't get it or they Find they find six bottles or eight Bottles or two bottles of something they Want and the Cubbies or the individual Racking are great for that one of the Things here I see is that you have you Know there's actually two different Cubby size openings believe it or not There's actually more than that if You're talking about Magnums and larger Bottles but Bordeaux bottles border Bottles are smaller in diameter than a Burgundy bottle by probably about a half Of an inch so you can imagine a Bordeaux Bottle is one of the bottles where it Has a very high neck a very high Shoulder and a very short neck and then A
Burgundy bottle has a long neck that Slopes down to a more bulbous body so You know why wouldn't you just put the Bigger opening for the smaller bottle Because believe it or not we have Customers who Are so concerned with how many bottles Are going to get into their space that Extra half of an inch multiply by 10 20 30 40 50 60 rows of bottles adds up to Hundreds of bottles in terms of capacity To the seller so it's that's what's Challenging about this and fun is that Sometimes we're talking about a big room But we're we're working down to you know 0.25 inches sometimes to make sure that Everything is going to fit so Um you know there the two things wine And cigars that you know I think we're Coming with some themes here right in Terms of how they're stored how you how You Um keep track of them sort them look at Them take care of them uh very similar Yeah what's the largest private seller You've uh you've built Probably 40 45 000 bottles Yeah that's amazing so a lot of that I Would imagine is stored in cases A lot of its store the vast majority is Stored in cases correct yeah and are Those cases I mean on shelves right or Stacked on the floor or kind of a Combination of both I mean I almost
Never on the floor Yeah it's almost never on the floor Um always off the floor you never know When there's a broken water pipe or a Leak somewhere so nobody wants their Wine on the floor if they can help it so Generally it's it's off the floor on Shelving the shelving needs to be you Know very sturdy some people are more Looking for utilitarian value sturdy Strong not worried about scratching it I'm here to store wine other people want Something that's a little bit more Aesthetically pleasing but it still has To be super strong I mean when you when You look at that wall of wine right There and you're a seller you probably Have a wine bottle averages three pounds A piece so you're looking at probably 500 to 800 pounds of wine there so You've got to have a you got to build it On a strong floor and then what's Holding it needs to be you know well Constructed yeah so last thing you want To do is walk into your wine cellar and Find a bunch of grape juice on the floor The very last thing I want to do Correct yeah I I sure I I would imagine You've never gotten one of those phone Calls before you know I haven't but we Just did a job on Tuesday in uh in uh LA And the customer was it's a very tall And skinny uh installation the customer Was really concerned about earthquakes
So it's not you know it's it's a Consideration for any anywhere Um but if you live in Tokyo La uh West Coast places there uh that are concerned About you know earthquakes and things Like that it's it's a real consideration Any favorite projects as you look back On your career I mean you were pushing You said you started in 95 right so Either you're pushing you know almost 30 Years here right yeah yeah probably a Little crazy to think of but as you look Back on some of your favorite projects Uh you know what have been some of your Favorites yeah I mean we you know we Just did a great one right in the dead Of covet unfortunately out at uh the Ritz in in St Louis are really cool Um wine room that they had I'm sorry a Cigar room they had Um an older cigar room this was an older Building that they were doing a top to Bottom renovation on uh when I went out I drove to St Louis which was fun but Nobody was flying in the summer of 2020 And we'd started the project with them In the design stages well before you Know March when coven when covet uh came About so Um there was a long a long uh project Planning and installation great Construction Company really good client Um in the Ritz and so they they were Fortunate enough that they knew a lot
About this because they had an old cigar Room there and this this cigar room was Probably 12 000 square feet with with Um a lot of lockers 400 plus lockers uh Some retail Cabinetry we have even built Cabinetry for smoking jackets which was Cool and they just have a very vibrant And dedicated sort of group cigar Community in St Louis that they already Had queued up to to join rejoin this Club so Um it was just it was fun to work with Them and and you know conquer some of The architectural and design challenges And then you know be able to be to Provide for them you know a product that Looked the way they wanted it to look And perform the way we all wanted to Perform so that was really fun yeah Yeah I would imagine that you know the Design aesthetic is a big part of of you Know the the mission or the objective Right is not just creating a space to Store the wine or cigars but creating a Beautiful space Yes and that's that's that's the fun of It and it's also the challenge of it so We understand you know we deal we we Have really great customers who Specialize in in interior Hospitality Design they design restaurants hotels Hotel lobbies Um you know clubs and so they bring Really cool ideas to us and then we sort
Of act as the curmudgeons who say well You know that's going to look nice but It needs to work too and so that Nexus Of design and functionality are really Where we our sweet spot is and so we Stretch ourselves because we say well we Want to please the customer we want to Do what they want what the look they Want we want the the finishes and the The appearance they want but we we can't Compromise Um on functionality and making sure that A everything's operating and doing what It's supposed to do in terms of Temperature humidity and also that it's Functional for the staff or for the Clients when they you know when they Want to go get cigars or wine or what Have you did it make sense Um and that the accessibility and the Organization of it really works well as Well so it's important yeah So we've got the design layout here Right you know the the air conditioning Or the cooling of the air is very Important the humidification is very Important you know on a large space like This how are you taking care of the duct Work in terms of you know where does the Cold air come in where's the extraction Where's the humidification how are you Circulating the air uh to ensure that Nothing is really getting stale I mean How important is that to the design of a
Larger room like this it's important um You know it the the maxims of General HVAC you know protocols really apply Here however you know you got to make Sure that you know you you know your Supplies and returns if you can put them In the wall or in the ceiling that works Really well since we're cooling the Ceiling or high in the walls where you Want the cold air to come in right Because cold air warm air rises and Pushes the cold air down so that Automatically creates a convection mix Effect which is ideal if you were Pumping the air and cold air and on the Floor you'd have a stratification you'd Have it substantially colder down around The floor than you would above unless You had additional mixing mixing fans uh Or something like that the other part is You want to have the supply and the Return you know strategically placed Away from each other so that you know You're bringing cold air in and the Return air out and sort of creating a Flow there and then obviously you don't Want the supply to be too close to the Cigars or the wine because then they Would be particularly wine because it Has a a bottle with liquid in it has a High thermal load component so if you Had cold air blowing on that wine it Would stay cold it wouldn't it wouldn't Get that warm because it doesn't give
Off the temperature cigars we just don't Want to cool the cigars down it Constricts the the tobacco inside the Cigar and you don't want you don't want That so high up airflow not near the Soil courses which in your in your case Or on on three walls on the perimeter so A logical place would be sort of the Center towards the back wall where the Cigars are but not too close and then You return you know in the ceiling or High on the wall near your door Okay so you would basically pipe in the Cool air the supply in the back of the Room and bring it forward towards the Door and then take it out right You could do the opposite if you had a Constraint but Um I'd prefer it that way and then with Any system you know you could you could Designate your your uh through your Controls you you can say I want the fan To run only when the air that cold air Is being presented or I can have my fan Run on Um on all the time Auto would be only Coming on with the cooling unit and you Could leave your fan on constant and That would be clean exchanging air even When the cooling isn't calling and that Gives you a really nice mixes too so When you're not in there a lot so Hearing a little fan running is not Going to bother you any
Yeah what about the humidification I Mean where is Zed coming in and how's That being distributed okay so you Definitely don't want the humidification Um in this room in the back Center where You've got the cooling a you want to Keep away from where the cold air is Because you could create a condensation Environment that we kind of discussed About with the Coke can concept and you Just don't want it um locally getting Mixed mixed into the air you know the Air Supply Air so I would put it you Know again probably you know on that top Wall near your door Um and you know if your fan is on con And constant that I recommended great Way to mix uh make sure your humid air But humidity spreads out pretty well in Constantly controlled air right so if You had a lot of variations you you had You might want you might be worried About it but a single Source there's no Supply in return whether humidification System on its own it's going to in this Case it's going to present the humidity Into the room and it's going to do that Whenever the humidistat asks it to so Um there are systems that do have Supplies and returns but in this Application that doesn't really make any Sense yeah what type of humidifier would You recommend So for this this is a larger room I
Think we talked about that nor Tech System Um I think the company has been bought I Sent you guys the information for it but The system is still called the northec And for a large space like this I mean You've got you know 13 plus feet by you Know by I think that's eight feet I Can't that's off on my screen there but Um I think that's a really good system It's a cold steam system it's a little Bit different than evaporative system Evaporative systems are a little a Little tough to use in a bigger space They just have a hard time with capacity Um and so something like that really Works well and it diffuses really well Into the air and dissipates very evenly Yeah and is this something that's Mounted into the wall or outside On the wall yep it can be surface Mounted on the wall or it I believe I Was looking at the specs last night on I Believe it can be mounted in the wall Um with a fairly low profile and it's Got a it's got a nice cover on it so it Looks pretty nice well the next element Of the design process here we've had Time to work on the plants I have to say I'm really happy uh with how these Turned out is selecting the wood in the Varnish right so you guys sent this nice The box we have right here with a bunch Of different wood samples in it right or
This is the same one so Um but with different varnishes right Right pull these out And so again Um how are you how would you recommend I Mean given the application here you know The type of wood we're using and then How it's finished to ensure that you Know since the primary goal here is the Storage of cigars that we're doing that As best as possible Yeah so since you're doing a room Um you know and you're not storing a lot Of loose cigars and most of the scars in Their boxes you know an inside of a a Humidor a smaller end tables kind of Humidor we're not going to finish the Interiors because the unfinished wood Acts as a stabilizer uh for the Humidification system in your case That's not really necessary and you want Some curb appeal Um you know so we're gonna you know We're gonna be finishing the interiors And the exteriors of these things Um the same right because most of your Interiors are exposed right you've got Open shelving Um and you've got you know you got some Lockers I mean we could talk about not Finishing the interior of the lockers And that could be effective Um which is simple to do Um and they're they're desiccant effect
Their their ability to absorb Um and and release moisture and Stabilize would be a marginal of Marginal benefit Um that would really be something we'd Have to discuss but Um you know we use for for finishing you Know we use water-based stains Which are you know great we we Unfortunately until last September we Always wanted to use water-based stains Because we like the environmental aspect Of it but unfortunately until some of These big manufacturers were Incentivized and pulled by the customer To be more environmentally friendly they Just didn't perform they were blotchy Um they didn't they didn't apply well And customers didn't like the look they Were muddy they didn't allow you know The key to a good a good stained finish Is that it changes the color but it Allows the wood to shine through the Grain and this texture of the wood to Show through so we've now got the access To really high quality water-based Stains and then we use conversion Varnish in conjunction with that as our Top coat which is a great product it's Resistant to uh you know to rings on Your tables but not impervious so where You've got your wine glasses and your Wine if you spill wine on the counter Top it would be fine if you left a wet
Glass on there for days at a time you Know you're probably going to get some Some issues only a urethane is going to Prevent that or not even prevent it but Be better for resisting penetration of Water Urethanes or don't buy the reason it Doesn't you don't get rings with the Urethane is it doesn't bind it doesn't Bind chemically with this substrate the Wood that's below it it sits on top Technically so Um you know you you really have the World is your oyster in terms of the Colors we sent you you know sort of our Palette which is sort of a lighter Harvest color through you know darker Brown espressos and uh and you know Reddish colors all the way to you know In Ebony which is no more than black Stain dark stain with again that Conversion varnish on it so that really Starts to get into Aesthetics it's um It's really what you you know you you're Gonna like what's going to go with your Whatever your flooring is your paint Color Um and any other accessorizing you're Doing your room and then of course we've Got some Hardware here because you've Got you've got knobs and um and locks And lock plugs and things there on your Bottom door so that's that's an Aesthetic consideration which we have
Options there from Brash to brush brass To you know to brush Chrome to Bright Chrome and believe it or not you know The 80s are back um we're doing we just Did a job we're doing more and more jobs With bright brass again which was sort Of gone for two decades and now now it's Returning like bell bottom and then uh High-waisted jeans everything comes full Circle high-waisted trousers and braces Right I mean it's there you go it all Comes in circles so once you apply a Varnish then it prevents the wood from Having that uh that benefit of buffering The humidity right because it's not Going to absorb moisture is that correct Right and then but in this environment You don't really you don't really need That you know it's again I if it was me I'd leave your lockers behind those mesh Doors I'd leave your lockers unfinished Just because you can Um and then you know finish everything Else and you'll get a you'll get a Marginal benefit but but with you Controlling temperature and humidity in This room Um you don't you're not you wouldn't You'd get a marginal benefit by leaving All those shelves and all those uprights All unfinished it really and it wouldn't Look great and it wouldn't and it Wouldn't um it wouldn't stand up to you Know time as much yeah yeah and so since
We have you know a you know top tier Cooling system like the wine guardian And the nor Tech you know humidification System right since we have those two Elements you know that are really of the Highest caliber you know the uh ability Or the impact of the wood to kind of Buffer that humidity is less important Because it's otherwise that's so well Controlled through what we're Introducing here right and you know you Brought it up at the beginning this is The flip side of having a lot more space Right when you're in a tiny space you Really need that desiccant value of that Unfinished wood because it stabilizes it Stabilizes everything you know it acts It absorbs moisture when the moisture Maybe gets a little higher and it and it And it sends that moisture back it Desiccates back uh the moisture when it Gets a little dry and it stabilizes Everything so you don't really need that Here and and again the aesthetic needs Are really important and you've got your Bases covered there Yeah any favorites I mean the Harvest And the chestnut are probably the two That jump out to me the most dark Um like yeah espresso there um and those Get wiped on and then you know like Mr Miyagi and the Karate Kid wipe on wipe Off My band yeah that's beautiful I mean and
Again you're really with the mahogany Able to see the beautiful wood grain of The wood itself Right which is part of what makes this So beautiful the Harvest shows the most Yep so you're gonna it sounds like You're gonna keep this room you know we Can't Satisfy both Masters here being cigars And wine and keep this in the Traditional long-term storage wide Temperature of 55 degrees Fahrenheit Because below 59 degrees Fahrenheit you Can't maintain that 70 70 humidity level That you need for your cigar so you win The Queen to me that you know you're You're fine with 64 65 degrees something In that range is that correct Yeah yeah I mean I would prefer for Longer term storage of the cigars just With uh just as with wine is to store it At a lower temperature Um you know of around 60 you know 63 64 65 sure right so at 63 64.65 you know we We did give you that chart so you can See that your um your readouts on your On your system you're going to want to Turn those you're going to want to turn Those up and I don't have the the chart Right in front of me but I think you're Going to be 75 and you know again you're it's Recommended here that you have some Pretty good independent hygrometers uh
In your wine cellar that are not Connected into the control system that Don't care whether something's turning On and off they're just an independent Monitor Um you can buy the Bluetooth ones and They can be on your phone so you can be Anywhere traveling to London and you can Say and they're pretty accurate I Wouldn't stress too much they're not They're not super accurate they're going To be be with a three maybe three or Four percentage points they say maybe a Little bit better but from my experience That's that's about where they are and Again we're more concerned yeah are Equally concerned I should say about Fluctuation we just don't want a lot of Fluctuation so and your wine you know at 63 your wine if you're not storing you Know old growth bordeaux's uh for 30 25 30 years again as long as you know There's no windows in this room Ultraviolet light you know the enemies Four enemies of wine ultraviolet light Vibration heat and humidity uh you got The humidity covered Um and you've got a consistent Temperature and there's not a lot of Ultraviolet light in the room your wine Is going to be great and I would imagine You're going to want to drink it before You get so old that you can't drink it Anymore anyway so I think you're good
Yeah yeah that's I mean you know this Isn't uh you know a collection of wine That I'm looking to You know invest in and store for decades Right right most of the stuff I would Imagine isn't going to spend you know That much time before it gets opened Sure and and by the way you're not far You know for so if you have any whites In there you'll you'll put you'll put a White in the fridge it's called the one Hour rule you put the white in the Fridge uh for about an hour and it'll be In the low 40s and then on your Reds You're really close to drinking Temperature you're a little bit lower so You take it out into Canton and then in Your case because it's 63.64 you can to Cant that wine and you know even a cab Or a Bordeaux you or you know you could Drink that in you know 20 minutes to a Half an hour Yeah to bring it up a little bit Yeah so Really I mean for this particular Purpose I mean it's not sacrilegious you Know to be able to have both of these I Mean really this is wine being stored in A humidor versus you know trying to Marry both these things up and you know Again I'm totally I mean I would prefer My cigar stored at in the low 60s versus This set like a 70 degree Um and so what you're saying is because The temperature is lower the relative
Humidity is going to read higher uh than It would at 70 70. yeah the system's Going to sense that it's dry Um because cold air doesn't hold as much Moisture and it's going to turn on so You're in an actual very enviable Position it's the people that have a High ambient situation which makes me Nervous anyway because you mentioned Tobacco beetles but let's say they have A situation where they're not consuming Temperature and they're in the mid 70s They're going to need to turn that Humidity setting on the humidification System down into the low 60s again to Keep keep the moisture temperature ratio Where it needs to be and again old School best way to tell what's going on In your humidor personal tastes included Or not is to take take a cigar that You're familiar with you know I use a Padron Maduro that I've wanted to smoke For so long but I won't because it is my Litmus test I go and I if I go to my Human or I haven't been in a while I Pick it up is the Box press still there Does it feel like that density is just The way I want it and I feel good if I'm If it's a little squishy or it feels a Little hard then I start to get a little Worried and I start to you know Investigate and I know I mean you talked About at the beginning I mean this Shouldn't create anxiety for people this
Should give people peace of mind to Enjoy their passions and that's what We're here for yeah yeah and that's what I'm looking for so I mean I have to ask I mean how do you store your cigars do You have a magnificent walk-in humidor At home or one somewhere in the office I Um I have one in the office behind me Here and I have I have a couple at home I have one of our original r1000 head Tables in my living room that my wife's Been trying to get me to take out for Years but I refuse And then I have an in-wall down in my my Pool room TV sports room Um that you know is just great because It's lit and it's cool and my friends Come over whether they smoke cigars or Not and they just you know fawn over it And love it so that's what I have I'm a Little bit of the Cobblers kid on the Wine I have a place for a wine cellar Designated but I just have been so busy That I haven't done it but eventually Um eventually I'll do something there Too Yeah and do you smoke inside are you Able to get away with that I am not I have I have customers that have Literally bought dogs to walk so they Can smoke their cigars I had we had a Customer who was a retired Professor From Columbia New York City and he was The greatest guy
Um and he he called me one day and he Goes I finally broke down and bought a Dog and I said why you don't like dogs He says I know but I take my dog for a Walk every night and I smoke a cigar and That's how I do it and I said okay well I guess that's one that's how he gets His permission yeah that's how he gets His permission he walks the dog and gets His cigar so yeah not not in my house Yet I probably could could do some type Of um you know air purifying system I Know there's a lot of really good ones Out there but yeah we filmed an entire Video I'm happy you know one of my Greatest kind of indulgences is the fact That I can smoke in my office and I put A lot of work into designing you know What I think is probably one of the best Air filtration systems that I've ever Seen I mean truly industrial grade air Filtration incredible right you know It's capable of 2 000 cubic feet a Minute of air circulation through 125 Pounds of carbon and a huge HEPA air Filter and so I think in this room Whenever it's running it turns the air Every three to four minutes wow so you Can smoke in here it's quiet and there's Absolutely no perceptible smoke it's Really it's amazing that's great and We're building a house and my one Non-negotiable is that I can smoke in The study and I'm still diligently
Working away on trying to figure out how Exactly I'm going to achieve that Without upsetting the family it's Important and then I'm going to have a Beautiful walk-in humidor here in the Office and I couldn't be any more Excited about nice well Charlie hey Thank you so much so we've got the Design plans here you know what's next You know in this process how long does It take to construct this and then you Know how does it get to me and how do I Install it yeah so you know we're ready To go and you know we if you if you have Any last minute tweaks to this obviously We will do do that and get you to review It with one of our consultants and sign Off on it and then you know then it goes Into our design to our other side of our Design Department which creates the Engineering that creates all the the Shop drawings for everything based on The plans Um and then it you know it actually goes Out into the plant a couple different Directions depending on what part of it That it is and then you know our lead Times right now are about eight to ten Weeks on something like this Um and that's that sort of gives us a Buffer to you know get your stuff in Order or any any specialty Hardware get Your finishing done and then we um we Put it together essentially and then
Break it down so that it's not a Kajillion dollars to to ship and label Everything with very very detailed uh Labeling very detailed instructions very Detailed bill of materials Um and obviously great plans and Instructions so those all go with Hardware and those all get uh very Purposefully and thoughtfully packed Into uh and they'll end up actually on Some type of a pallet and sent down to You You know any any kind of local contract And mount it to the wall and you know Put it together like yeah where you want You want to know somebody that yeah you Want to have somebody that's a pretty Skilled Carpenter to do this Um just because fit and finish is vital Yeah okay excellent uh and then you know And then we'll talk with your team right They're available to provide guidance You have the white papers in terms of Again the specifics on how to make sure That we get this shell properly built to Provide thermal insulation but also the Vapor barrier correct Yeah great hey well Charlie thank you so Much I couldn't be more excited uh I Mean this is going to be an absolutely Beautiful uh piece of art that uh to Install and I can't wait to see it uh Finished be able to light it up uh put Some bottles of wine on the racks and
Some cigars and get to enjoy this Beautiful piece of work so Um Charlie thank you so much thank you We're excited too and you got a promise To send pictures and video when you get It all done you know you've got to come Down and smoke a cigar okay deal you can You can have your pick Um okay great well thank you so much so Excited to be able to to see this come Together it's been you know something That I've been uh you know working in The back of my mind uh you know for for Years the idea of ultimately building a Wok in humidor and so this is uh Something I'm really looking forward to We are too and I and I thank you as well Kirby Uh so there we have it uh Charlie Griffiths the president of vigilant Inc And I couldn't be any more excited about This process of finally designing my Wok In humidor that's going to be here at The office so I've got the smoking room My office where I'm able to smoke in We've got an entire video about how I Designed the smoke filtration of this Room and to finally be able to build a Proper Wok inhibitor I have to say is a Little bit of a dream come true I'd be Lying to you if this if I did admit that This is something that I've been you Know kind of working over in the back of My mind uh slowly for the better part of
Five or ten years and so here we are Finally have the space and the Opportunity to design the ultimate Wok In humidor and I couldn't be any more Excited and now Vigilant based in New Hampshire and what I find particularly Interesting about them and the reason I Chose to go with vigilant is the fact That they actually started with the Construction and design of walking Humidors back in 1995 it was their core Focus that they maintained today the Wine cellars of course are probably a Larger part of their business and They're certainly experts at that but Being able to work with someone that Really understands humidors and cigars Gives me the confidence that we're going To be able to build the ultimate walk-in Humidor so this is the first video of a Series of videos that we will film Documenting the construction of that Walk-in humidor so if you're not a Subscriber to this channel make sure you Hit that red subscribe button so that You can learn whenever we publish new Videos and follow me along on this Incredible journey of finally being able To build a walk-in humidor if you Haven't visited Kirby allison.com please Take a moment to do so of course that is The best way to support this Channel and The content we film and there you'll Find the largest collection of luxury
Garment Care and luxury shoe care Accessories in the world as well as Other great clothing and smoking Accessories I like this beautiful Sovereign grade necktie pocket square Sovereign grade science blocks braces And really so much more so please take a Moment and visit Kirby allison.com and We also have the newest way to support This channel that's through our patreon 100 of the proceeds of our patreon will Go to support our ability to travel to Places like Italy in Cuba and so again If you're looking to support the content That we film here at Kirby Allison Please take a moment and look at joining Our patreon page otherwise I'm Kirby Allison and I love to help the Well-dressed acquire and care for their Wardrobes while exploring the world of Quality craftsmanship and tradition Thanks for watching Foreign [Music]
